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How theft, lying, and identity fraud are morally excused in Judaism

The Ugly Truth

ed note–A fascinating 5 minute podcast discussion between 2 Jews discussing the biblical character Jacob (who later would be called Israel and is considered the ‘father’ of the Israelite nation) and how his trickery and dishonesty–having never been subjected to a rigorous moral examination by the followers of this peculiar cult–has colored the thinking patterns and behaviors of Jews throughout the centuries. Furthermore, as our 2 Hebraic hosts make clear, the discussion reveals how the absence of any moral examination vis a vis Jacob and his theft has led to ‘persecution’ and ‘anti-Shemitism’, but why–for the sake of revering the ‘patriarchs’–the entire biblical ordeal dealing with Jacob stealing his brother Esau’s inheritance from him via the mechanism of trickery needs to be overlooked or at the very least excused.  

A case study in how Jews think and why the allergic reaction to them, their thinking, and their behavior ever since the biblical stories featuring Abraham and Sarah being kicked out of Egypt is an absolutely normal function of the body politic’s immune system, as well as underscoring the monumental error in judgment that was made when the architects of the new faith known as Christianity decided to include within it the inherently poisonous teachings of the Torah.

Listen here: The Ugly Truth

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12 Responses to How theft, lying, and identity fraud are morally excused in Judaism

  1. galen says:

    Very telling audio. Attempts to justify the unjustifiable and we get to eavesdrop on damage-control. I guess this is going on because they know there have been many who are exposing the deceptive tactics of Torah.

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  2. DL. says:

    There are for me anyway a lot of events in Genesis that don’t make sense regarding this kind of trickery which, if one thinks about it, why would God allow such a thing–and not just Jacob’s theft of Esau’s birthright…
    1. The fact that Jacob also tried to be born first by pulling on Esau’s ankle so he wouldn’t be born first
    2. Why would God allow Cain to kill Abel?
    3. If Judah was going to be the line that Christ is descended from, why was Reuben born first
    4. Same thing with David, who was born last in Jesse’s line
    5. If Jews are the Chosen people and all gentiles are cattle or whatever, then why is David’s great-grandmother Ruth a MOABITESS??? Doesn’t that make David part Gentile on his mother’s side?
    6. If all the Canaanites were supposed to be slaughtered, why did Rahab aid Joshua’s side? And didn’t she later marry an Israelite? If Israelites were supposed to not marry gentiles?
    7. Why did Moses marry the daughter of Jethro (Zipporah) if she was an Ishmaelite (a Midianite)
    8. If all the evil folks like Cain’s line died in Noah’s flood, then why were Kenites (according to Strong’s concordance, Kenites were descended from Cain?) around in Numbers, the Samuel Books, etc.
    9. and didn’t David marry the wife of a man, a Hittite, that he killed himself to take his wife?

    Bear in mind Isaiah 45, the verse where it says God created evil…Satan for instance…why? So the Talmudists could do evil deeds? Hmmmm….

    • KOYOTE says:

      “the last shall be first, the first shall be last”?mat 20;16

    • Darzak says:

      DL, I have spent some time responding to your thoughts below. I hope they help you see things with more clarity.

      There are for me anyway a lot of events in Genesis that don’t make sense regarding this kind of trickery which, if one thinks about it, why would God allow such a thing–and not just Jacob’s theft of Esau’s birthright…

      The Bible states that Esau “despised his birthright”:
      “And Jacob sod (cooked) pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint: And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom. And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright. And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me? And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright. (Genesis 25:29-34).
      The New Testament declares in Hebrews 12: ” Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
      That Rebekah steered Jacob into deceiving Isaac is certainly wicked, and I offer no justification for her actions, which appear to me to be attempting to fulfill the word of God by human means. If Jacob had not decived Isaac into thinking he was Esau, Jacob would still have wound up as the chosen heir to the line of Promise. I also do not offer any justification for Jacob taking advantage of Esau’s weakness of hunger to use as leverage in gaining the birthright. The key point here is that Esau was only able to be taken advantage of by Jacob in regard to the birthright because he did not hold it in high value.

      1. The fact that Jacob also tried to be born first by pulling on Esau’s ankle so he wouldn’t be born first:

      I actually don’t find this point to be very difficult to process, considering the type of person Jacob was prior to his renaming by God to Israel. What I do find difficult to process is that God takes wretched people like Jacob (and me, for that matter) and uses them to fulfill His plans.

      2. Why would God allow Cain to kill Abel?

      This question can be found on the lips of many people in many forms, and is one of the most common objections people have towards God. The issue is: “Why does God allow people to do evil things?” This is so large an issue, that attempting to provide even a cursory response will fall far short of addressing it adequately. Perhaps I will write an article to go into this issue in a deeper way, but for now, suffice it to say it is about God allowing free moral agency to Mankind, and that means allowing Man to go his own way, and allowing the results to be seen by all. It seems to me to also have something to do with God as both Righteous Judge and Merciful Savior.
      Note that the issue that was raised in Eden was that through the disobedience of Adam in partaking of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: “…the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…” (Genesis 3:22a). This indicates that God already knew what was good and evil, one can imply because He Himself was already in possession of all Goodness to begin with. Not so with Man, who began as a potential free moral agent, and found himself suddenly saddled with the ability to choose good or evil, but without the spiritual connection to God that was necessary to shun evil. I say this, because God declared regarding the fruit of the Tree: “… but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:17). That Adam & Eve did not physically die the day they ate the fruit (although the inevitability of their mortality was already assured) they DID die spiritually in their relationship to God. Without the vital spiritual link to God, their ability to make choices in relation to evil was unconstrained. As their descendants grew farther and farther afield from the original understanding of God’s presence, their inclination to do evil became so unbounded that God chose to destroy them all, save Noah and his family. As I said, responding to this issue would take pages of thoughts.

      3. If Judah was going to be the line that Christ is descended from, why was Reuben born first?

      Reuben was indeed the firstborn, and the final blessings of Israel (Jacob) on his sons can be found in Genesis 49. There we notice that Judah was the 4th son of Jacob, but the 1st one to receive a good blessing – his 3 older brothers had disqualified themselves from the leadership of the family due to their wickedness. The head of the family was ultimately to become the ruling line over all Israel, and Jacob’s blessing indicated that the line of Judah would remain enthroned “until Shiloh came” and the scepter was passed to Him to whom the people would gather (Jesus, the Messiah). In the final evaluation God, in His foreknowledge, chooses whomever He wishes to fulfill His promises, and it is not according to the will or designs of man.

      4. Same thing with David, who was born last in Jesse’s line.

      Same answer as above – God chooses whomever He wishes to fulfill His plans. When God sent Samuel to Jesse’s house to anoint the next king after Saul, whom God had rejected, he said to Samuel regarding Eliab, Jesse’s firstborn:
      “But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.” (1 Samuel 16:7)

      5. If Jews are the Chosen people and all gentiles are cattle or whatever, then why is David’s great-grandmother Ruth a MOABITESS??? Doesn’t that make David part Gentile on his mother’s side?

      Yes, the fact that Ruth was a Moabitess, who married Boaz DOES make David part Gentile. It also makes Jesus the descendant of a gentile, since He is of the line of David. Note that Rahab the prostitute, whom you mention below, married Salmon and was also the mother of Boaz, making her David’s great-great-grandmother. This reveals Jesus had TWO Gentiles as ancestors according to His earthly lineage! Like Rahab below, Ruth was a believer in the LORD, and was grafted into believing Israel. (I will respond to the “Gentiles are cattle and the marriage to non-Israelites below.)

      6. If all the Canaanites were supposed to be slaughtered, why did Rahab aid Joshua’s side? And didn’t she later marry an Israelite? If Israelites were supposed to not marry gentiles?

      You can read about the conquest of Jericho in Joshua 6, but this story is found in Joshua 2. Rahab the prostitute hid the 2 spies from Israel on her roof so the King of Jericho’s men could not find them. The reason she took this action is noted below:
      ” And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; And she said unto the men, I know that the Lord hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.” (Joshua 2:8-11)
      In reference to the above passage, we read this in Hebrews 11:31: “By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.”
      So we see that Rahab was a believer in The LORD, and it was this belief that God saw and noted in the Hebrews 11 list of heroes of the faith. It is also interesting to note that the sign Rahab was to show in her window to spare her and her family was a scarlet cord, which, like the Passover blood on the door frames in Egypt, was a portent of the blood of Jesus, the atonement for our sin.
      With regard to the statement about “all Gentiles are cattle”, that idea is NOT from the Bible, but from the Talmud. The Old Testament certainly makes a serious delineation between Gentile and Israelite, but that is due to the departure of the other nations from the true worship of the LORD, and their subsequent fall into abominable practices. The idea that the Israelites (note I do not say “Jews”) were the “chosen” people is correct: they WERE chosen by God – to be a people set apart through whom the Messiah would come into the world. Against much opposition from men and demons they fulfilled their “chosen” purpose, and Jesus was born an Israelite of the tribe of Judah. Henceforth, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ makes all men of all nations and kindreds on equal ground with the promise of salvation and eternal life through Him.
      The issue of those who falsely claim to be the “chosen” today, the religious descendants of the Pharisees of Jesus’ day, has been addressed by me here before. I won’t belabor the point, except to say that modern Judaism does NOT worship the God of the Bible, and the vast majority of those who claim to be descendants of the original Israelites have little or no appreciable genetic relation to them. They are not the spiritual or physical children of Abraham.
      “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” Romans 2:28-29.

      7. Why did Moses marry the daughter of Jethro (Zipporah) if she was an Ishmaelite (a Midianite)?

      Zipporah’s Father was “priest of Midian”, and a Kenite shepherd. As believers in the LORD, the Kenites were grafted into Israel the same way Ruth or Rahab were grafted in – by faith. Again, as touching the prohibition against marrying Gentiles, that was only commanded by God AFTER Moses was given the Law for Israel, and it was commanded because of the spiritual defilement that would inevitably occur from such unions, not the genetic dilution. Moses married Zipporah before the Law was given. (See the responses above regarding Ruth and Rahab).

      8. If all the evil folks like Cain’s line died in Noah’s flood, then why were Kenites (according to Strong’s concordance, Kenites were descended from Cain?) around in Numbers, the Samuel Books, etc.

      Indeed, all those alive on the Earth, excepting the eight souls on the Ark were slain in the Flood:
      “And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.” Genesis 7:23
      This does not mean all evil folks died in the Flood. All eight on the Ark were still under the doom of Adam, and had wicked hearts, though Noah had found grace as righteous in God’s eyes as one who, by faith, walked in God’s ways.
      The Kenites were a group of people who likely derived from the line of the Midianaites, not Cain. They are first mentioned in Genesis 15, when God declared that He would provide descendants to Abraham that would be as numerous as the stars visible in the night sky (note He did not say “as numerous as all the stars” – the Earth would not bear that many descendants for the sheer number.) The Kenites were sided with the Israelites during the Exodus from Egypt and lived peacably with the Israelites afterwards, as seen when Saul warned them to separate from the Amalekites when he was about to go to war with them in 1 Samuel 15:6. The confusion regarding the Strong’s entry for Kennites and Cain has to do with the fact that Strong’s is a resource for words and Hebrew word derivations, not geneologies. The root word may be similar or the same, but does not indicate they are patronymically related (by descendancy).

      9. and didn’t David marry the wife of a man, a Hittite, that he killed himself to take his wife?

      Yes, David did marry Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite, one of his “Mighty Men” as seen in the listing of all 37 men in 2 Samuel 23. Uriah’s death was arranged by David to cover up the pregnancy that resulted from David’s adultery with Bathsheba. He arranged for Uriah to be left in the thick of battle by himself and so be overcome by the enemy and killed. The murder of Uriah was a grave sin on David’s part – one that God punished severely and from which we see David’s contrition in Psalm 51, which is ascribed to that very event. The child born of the illicit union also died, as part of God’s judgement regarding the matter. Also note that the next child born to David and Bathsheba was Solomon, who went on to become King.

      Bear in mind Isaiah 45, the verse where it says God created evil…Satan for instance…why? So the Talmudists could do evil deeds? Hmmmm….

      The verse you mention is Isaiah 45:7; ” I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
      You will note that the verse includes “light” and “darkness” as a contrast. The words “peace” and “evil” are also used in contrast, hence the term “evil” used here denotes the opposite of peace, not the moral term “evil” as in the opposite of moral good. The word used here, and also in other places may be better translated into our modern vernacular as “calamity”. There are times when God grants peace to people or nations, and times when, in His Wisdom, He allows calamity to occur.
      The concept that God created moral evil is false. If we start from the Biblical premise (and I do) that in His Nature God is the very source and definition of moral Goodness, by extrapolation we can determine that whatever is NOT of God is evil. This would indicate that prior to Lucifer becoming corrupted through his pride and ambition moral evil only existed as an unrealized potential, since there was never an avenue for it to be manifested.

  3. Enemy of the State says:

    This is a subject I have no business commenting on , mostly because I lack any knowledge of

    I’m thankful for the Trenchers that do
    I’m listening

    I know shit when I smell it , but lack the background knowledge to call it out

  4. Enemy of the State says:

    theft, lying, and identity fraud.. dam.. sounds like our Pigs in this country

  5. galen says:

    “I believe and profess that a people never must value anything higher than the dignity and freedom of its existence; that it must defend these with the last drop of blood; that it has no duty more sacred and can obey no law that is higher; that the shame of a cowardly submission can never be wiped out; that the poison of submission in the bloodstream of a people will be transmitted to its children, and paralyze and undermine the strength of later generations … Under most circumstances, a people is unconquerable if it fights a spirited struggle for its liberty. … I declare and assert to the world and to future generations that I consider the false wisdom which aims at avoiding danger to be the most pernicious result of fear and anxiety. Danger must be countered with virile courage, joined calm, and firm resolve and clear conscience. … Boldness, that noble virtue through which the human soul rises above the most menacing dangers, must be deemed to be a decisive agent in conflict. Indeed, in which sphere of human activity should boldness come into its own unless it be in struggle? … A nation which does not dare to talk boldly will risk even less to act with courage.”
    ~~ Karl von Clausewitz, From the book, “War, Politics, And Power”

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