The Olympus, almost identical in construction to the Titanic, had been involved in several serious accidents requiring extensive, multiple repairs so she was virtually on her last legs, a possible motive for switching the ships.
Curiously, and not mentioned in any film or documentary, the much-vaunted and publicized fake “Titanic” was only half-booked when it set sail and there are indications that 1st Class passengers were dissuaded from booking passages.
The ‘fake’ Titanic set sail, struck an iceberg and sank, killing over 1500 passengers… and JP Morgan collected the insurance.
Correction: It was the Olympic – NOT Olympus.
My Fellow Americans:
After the US Marines,.. I went back to school, and earned 3 degrees in the Engineering field besides 2 degrees in other fields, was than VP Of Engineering/Logistics for an Aerospace Company (Space Energy Inc), and am also a Forensics Engineer that works with AE911Truth (which is seeking to get a REAL investigation into how Bldg 7 (and WTC 1 & 2) actually came down at freefall velocity (which can ONLY be achieved thru the mechanics of controlled demolition)
The Titanic accident is one of my personal favorite studies, as it a text-book example of what gets reviewed in a Forensics Investigation when considering all the immediate and external concerns, such as the design, the incident itself, the politics of the time, the financial, the economic the corporate, the public relations, as well as other issues.
As interesting as the this poprposal is, it glances over, and does little service to the entire lynch pin of the argument, which is not surprising, as it will not stand up to scurnity, which is,… the collision the the HMS Hawke was simply incapable of causing the extent of damage on which this whole proposal is based.
Both ships were “channeling: which means operating at very low velocities, and were so slow, that the Titancis channel draft was capable of pulling the Hawke into its stern quarter.
To “bend” the keel would have produced FAR greater external damage to the strakes (the longitudinal steel sheets that comprised the hull) than the minor puncture that was clearly visible, and the minor chipping to the external edges that resulted to the Starboard Propeller.
The Titanic was a Flat-Bottom ship, it was approximately 882.75 ft long by 92.5ft wide.
Was flat-bottomed, with its main weather deck as its “strength deck”, its side walls (hull) were essentially vertical, giving the Titanic the essential geometry of a Square Tube which was tappered at the Bow & Stern.
To bend this “square tube” at the stern, would have required the Hawke to hit it with some meassure of far greater substantial force, that would have caused far, far greater damage to the hull skin, as the Hawke would have penetrated some 20 or 30 feet into the Titanics rear quarter, which would also have produced rippling on the impact side of the hull, as well as fractures on the opposite side of the hull.
None of this is observed in any of the many pictures of the Olympic when it was dry docked for repairs.
An interesting story,… but wholly impossible from the, “required damage to render the Titanic worthless” point of view.
JD – US Marines – There is actually a multitude of other considerations that make this possible story improbable,… but the superficial nature of the actual damage kills the story right out of the gate.
Thanks JD!
I had a z-card for years (always a back up plan!), ex-navy, pleasure sailor, one-time shrimper (pre Hurricane Charley) and have been struggling with a nagging feeling for about 2 hours. I watched this and was going to comment but couldn’t find the words to explain what was bugging me. Your engineering expertise answered my questions and confirmed my suspicious feeling about this.
to the engineer marine.. so your opinion discounts/debunks the engraved
letters in the sunken hull.. what about the californians sudden stop, communications directly to the captain and waiting for and asking about the color of the rockets.. so JP Morgan, the same JP Morgan who killed Tesla’s Wardenclyffe… who was behind the bank runs that started the Great Depression …
couldn’t possibly be a crook based on your engineering expertise..
what about the propeller ..??
Yeah, yeah, yeah,….
Lets start with the given reason for the whole escaped that you are desperately trying to cling to, which was the ship was so horrifically damaged, as to not being worth fixing even though it was the most expensive ship ever built in human history up to that date.
In addition, what this video INCORRECTLY claims is that this would have wiped out Ismay, White Star Line and JP Morgan had this ship been really damaged as stated.
Incorrect: Ismay was the Managing Director, but White Star Line was owned by IMM, which was owned by JP Morgan (stated in the video),… Who was owned by the Rothchilds (NOT stated in the video!). In the end,…ALL the money for this little exercise in vanity came from the Rothchilds, and in the end, the lose of the Olympic would have been a little annoying, but of no real impact to Morgan, Ismay, or the Rothchilds,.. who in fact backed the entire affair.
Back to the what this whole charade is based on,.. the “Impact Damage Of No Return….”
The incident that supposedly caused the devasting blow to the Olympic was nothing more than the nautical equivalent to a fender bender with the HMS Hawke. (both were manuvering in channel)
There was minor damage to two strakes, with the bulk of the “tear” being slightly wider than one strake,.. (about 6′ wide) and chipping on the propeller which did necassitate replacing.
Note: The blades themselves on the hub were individually replacable, but it was QUICKER to simply swap the whole propeller assembly for the Titanic’s (still under construction at the time of the Olympic/Hawke collision)
The ENTIRE premise of this story, is that the Olympic was mortally damaged to its keel, and the hull so distorted and bend out of shape, as to be uneconomical to repair.
Had this been true, the magnitude of impact needed to twist, bend, distort the hull, and irretrivably damage the keel, would have had needed to be devasting enough to reach into about 1/3 the width of the ship,.. say about 25′ into the bowels of the ship,.. plus it would have had to overcome the shear strength of the Celluar-Double-Hull bottom that was protecting the keel from side intrusion.
Construction Facts: This was a DOUBLE HULL – Celluar Construction Bottom -The Keel side (inner keel) strake plating was 20/30’s (1-1/2″ thick), the Garboard strake plating (the plating next to the outer keels) was 25/20’s (1-1/4″ thick), and the plating around the “Turn Of Bilge”, and up to the Strength Deck was 20/20’s (1″ thick).
Any impact capable of damaging the Main Keel beyond repair, would have left an absolutely enormous damage signature in the hull its-self (there was a minor small hole/tear), would have “rippled” the impact side from compression distortions, would have fractured the opposite hullside from tensile stresses, & would have bent the Starboard Propeller shaft, which would have mandated replacement (it was NOT replaced,.. therefore,.. NOT damaged), in addition, the propellor shafts support bearings, and the Trust-Block would have been pulled off their bed plates, rendering repairs into the months,.. not days.
Note on the propeller shaft support bearings and trust block assemblies: Despite their massive size,.. they are both incredibly sensitive to ANY dimensional misaligment. An “Out-Of-True” condition of just a few thousandths of an inch would be enough to wipe out the support bearings,.. and a dislocation of the propeller shafts from the Trust-Block by just several thousanths of an inch would wipe them out before they got out of the harbor.
In addition, the stated speed just before Fredrick Fleet’s iceberg warrning, about one minute before time of impact with the iceberg (11:40pm, April 14, 1912) was approx 21.5 knots.
This is near absolute top speed for this vessel, could NOT have been acheived with the Port and Center screws only. That kind of speed required all three propellers (screws) turning at near maxium power/speed.
Had the Starboard shaft had ANY deviation in its Run-Out (out of true), the vibrations would have almost shaken the ship apart in the 2 1/2 preceeding days of open sea transit! (as it is, there were no reports of any vibrations from the running of the ship,.. until it was running over the iceberg).
The rest of the story does create a few interesting questions,.. but the realty is,.. there is no way that the Olympic was so irreversably damaged as to be uneconomical to fix, that they would then be able to “patch it up” enough to pass off as the Titanic, sail for 2 1/2 days at near top speed, just so they could pull of an insurance job.
Although there are some more relevant construction and forensic facts that make this story impossible, I have covered just a few, that should at least be sufficient to clarify the basic problem: The Olympic could NOT have been so damaged, as to be financially beyond repair AND sailable with just a few days repair by a small select repair crew.
One last consideration: This stroy tries to calim that the damage was localized to the point of impact and the resulting bend in the hull.
If that is true,.. it would have been a small matter for Harland & Wolffe to “cut the section” out, and replace it.
At that time (and is still true), it was fairly routine for a ship to be “cut” and a section added in to extend the length of the ship.
Why would it be impossible to cut a section of damaged ship (with localized damage), and replace it??
Answer: It would not be. In fact, Harland & Wollfe pioneered some of the techniques for doing so.
Hope that helps a little.
JD – US Marines – Never get lost in the superfluous details,.. always focus on the primary cause, and question its potential,.. then move on to secndary considerations if the first part holds fast.
yeah yeah yeah.. pages and pages of misdirection.. uhm the engravings on the hull..?? the rockets..??? how about the fire in the coal bin..??? the prop..?? the empty first class cabins..?? the cancellation of Morgan and others, the removal of his artworks..??? we read your engineering/economics argument in your first reply… you did nothing but extend upon that, which is nothing but your personal opinion based upon only personal conjecture. refute all of the evidence before disclaiming the whole… when you refuse to answer even the most basic questions, but instead misdirect and remisdirect … It marks you with an agenda
TROLL ALERT!
JD, I look forward to your crucifixion of this troll! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Hash,
You got it!,… I can’t fool you.
It was actually Santa Clause testing his new Anti-Ship Troll Missle,.. and the Titanic (actually the Olympic) was a convient test target.
Of course Santa had worked all this out in advance, hence the booking short falls, the radio communications, and of course that ever so obscure image of the fully spelled out ship name,.. Olympic (oh wait,.. it was just a couple of poorly imaged letters).
What you didn’t mention was the little extras to make this all the more convincing!,.. like:
The willingness of some of the richest people in the world to go down with the ship (wink, wink, nod,.. nod),.. like John Jacob Astor IV, Benjamin Gugginheim, Isidor & Ida Strauss (owners of Macy’s), Thomas Andrews (Designed/built the ship), Charles Hays (President – Canadian RR), John Borland Thayer (Famous Cricket player), Archibald Willingham Butt (American Military Aid),.. and others,… and of course,.. Captain Smith agreed to “Go down with the ship” to keep it all authenitic looking!
Can’t fool you Hash,… you FAR to smart to be decieved by little things like real facts and construction details, and prefer to stick to “eyewitness accounts”, poor undersea images, supposition and taking other events and actions out of context.
Wow,… The people for the “Keep The Olympic Event A Secret” are going to be very upset with you!
Well Rhumstruck,… the genius Hash can’t be fooled,.. we mind as well come clean,.. both you and I were there and were part of the whole deception too!
JD – US Marines – Glad to see geniuses like Hash NEVER let little things like facts get in the way of weak fantasy story.
Damn it JD,
Now the secret is out! I’ve been telling people for almost 100 years that I’m only 56 years old. That damn oddball Ismay almost gave it up when he groped my crotch in the lifeboat. (Until now nobody knew I escaped Titanic by cross dressing so I could get into a lifeboat! I’ve never been caught, but you my friend just gave the kitty away. I have woken up a couple of people that are now following FTTWR. Now maybe at least they will believe me that America was a much free’er country in my youth.
Or should I say, believe my memories!
There goes my cushy slide through humanity, now what are we going to do?
🙂 🙂 🙂