The Guardian – by Ewen MacAskill
Source for the Guardian’s NSA files on why he carried out the biggest intelligence leak in a generation – and what comes next.
Edward Snowden was interviewed over several days in Hong Kong by Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill.
Q: Why did you decide to become a whistleblower?
A: “The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.
“I don’t want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under.”
Q: But isn’t there a need for surveillance to try to reduce the chances of terrorist attacks such as Boston?
A: “We have to decide why terrorism is a new threat. There has always been terrorism. Boston was a criminal act. It was not about surveillance but good, old-fashioned police work. The police are very good at what they do.”
Q: Do you see yourself as another Bradley Manning?
A: “Manning was a classic whistleblower. He was inspired by the public good.”
Q: Do you think what you have done is a crime?
A: “We have seen enough criminality on the part of government. It is hypocritical to make this allegation against me. They have narrowed the public sphere of influence.”
Q: What do you think is going to happen to you?
A: “Nothing good.”
Q: Why Hong Kong?
A: “I think it is really tragic that an American has to move to a place that has a reputation for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People’s Republic of China. It has a strong tradition of free speech.”
Q: What do the leaked documents reveal?
A: “That the NSA routinely lies in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of surveillance in America. I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinised most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians.”
Q: What about the Obama administration‘s protests about hacking by China?
A: “We hack everyone everywhere. We like to make a distinction between us and the others. But we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries.”
Q: Is it possible to put security in place to protect against state surveillance?
A: “You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying. We can plant bugs in machines. Once you go on the network, I can identify your machine. You will never be safe whatever protections you put in place.”
Q: Does your family know you are planning this?
A: “No. My family does not know what is happening … My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with …
I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I am not going to be able to communicate with them. They [the authorities] will act aggressively against anyone who has known me. That keeps me up at night.”
Q: When did you decide to leak the documents?
A: “You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realise that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.
“A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama’s promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor.”
Q: What is your reaction to Obama denouncing the leaks on Friday while welcoming a debate on the balance between security and openness?
A: “My immediate reaction was he was having difficulty in defending it himself. He was trying to defend the unjustifiable and he knew it.”
Q: What about the response in general to the disclosures?
A: “I have been surprised and pleased to see the public has reacted so strongly in defence of these rights that are being suppressed in the name of security. It is not like Occupy Wall Street but there is a grassroots movement to take to the streets on July 4 in defence of the Fourth Amendment called Restore The Fourth Amendment and it grew out of Reddit. The response over the internet has been huge and supportive.”
Q: Washington-based foreign affairs analyst Steve Clemons said he overheard at the capital’s Dulles airport four men discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended. Speaking about the leaks, one of them said, according to Clemons, that both the reporter and leaker should be “disappeared”. How do you feel about that?
In Dulles UAL lounge listening to 4 US intel officials saying loudly leaker & reporter on #NSA stuff should be disappeared recorded a bit
Steve Clemons @SCClemonsA: “Someone responding to the story said ‘real spies do not speak like that’. Well, I am a spy and that is how they talk. Whenever we had a debate in the office on how to handle crimes, they do not defend due process – they defend decisive action. They say it is better to kick someone out of a plane than let these people have a day in court. It is an authoritarian mindset in general.”
Q: Do you have a plan in place?
A: “The only thing I can do is sit here and hope the Hong Kong government does not deport me … My predisposition is to seek asylum in a country with shared values. The nation that most encompasses this is Iceland. They stood up for people over internet freedom. I have no idea what my future is going to be.
“They could put out an Interpol note. But I don’t think I have committed a crime outside the domain of the US. I think it will be clearly shown to be political in nature.”
Q: Do you think you are probably going to end up in prison?
A: “I could not do this without accepting the risk of prison. You can’t come up against the world’s most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk. If they want to get you, over time they will.”
Q: How to you feel now, almost a week after the first leak?
A: “I think the sense of outrage that has been expressed is justified. It has given me hope that, no matter what happens to me, the outcome will be positive for America. I do not expect to see home again, though that is what I want.”
Watch the video here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-why
this guy has brass balls and the heart of a true patriot. Now he can longer live in the country he chose to protect from tyranny. A real hero in my book.
Yep. And so young too.
Hi Sam Adams,
I can understand your desire to believe this guy is trying to expose just some of the gov’t crimes,.. but his answers give him away as a Trojan-Horse,.. a fake, fraud,.. a plant that is meant to distract us,… distract us from what is the question.
You see, the best way to find a fraud,.. is to ask them questions you already know the answer to, but don’t tell that little fact. Give them every chance to confirm what you already know,.. or to lie about it, and prove themselves to be fake.
Alllow me to highlight just a couple of the dead give aways (tell-tales) of his “answers”,
1) Why did you become a whistleblower?
His answer is generic as they come, and does not posses ANY measure of “personal” moral rubicon that has been vilolated, What he describes is what he was exposed to from day 1.
If he was going to be offended by it, it would have occurred sooner, rather than later. Once his sensibilities has become accostumed to this work enviroment, their was little-to-no chance of that happening. He describes NOTHING that would cause a person to “suddenly” feel the need to throw their career, their paycheck, their home, their pension, their co-workers, their friends, their families and their safety away.
2) Need for surveallance to reduce “terrorism”
First off, he knows nothing about how Boston was a US Gov’t/Israeli Black-OP????
How is it that I, and virtually everyone else knows??? (Especially here on, From The Trenches!)
Secondly,.. had this guy been genuine,… his first response would have been: “The US Gov’t CREATES the terrorism to extinguish the Constitution, Bill Of Rights,.. and to Justify Spying on/Invading every other country in the world”
Soon as he danced around this truth,.. this was the dead give away he’s a Trojan.
The rest of his interview is not much better,.. but their is zero need to analyze any further,.. he has already proven he is a fake with his faliure to tell the truth about the role of the US Gov’t,.. and its owner, Israel, in manufacturing terrorism.
The question is: What is his real mission objective with this little PR stunt?
JD – US Marine – Although we would love to hear from real whistle blowers,.. this guy is a trap,… bait for something else. The question is,… what?
I wonder how long it will be before we see news that he has been “found dead from an apparent suicide.”
Like the DC Madam who told her sister the week before she would not suicide and all those deaths and suicides at the Minot Air Base not forgetting even those involved with the taking of Fake Sheikh Osama Bin Laden who have suddenly all decided life is too much.
More of America’s Nazi taught methods of using terror to keep people quiet and the only way this bloke is ever going to survive is to make sure he has extra goodies held somewhere that can be released upon his death.
Keep in mind these “terrorist” events like Boston are false flags. It gives the state more justification to turn the screws harder. Look for more in the near future.
Although Snowden does not seem up to speed on Boston, he did mention the “throwing someone from an airplane” way of getting rid of opposition. It’s interesting that two FBI men recently met with an “accident” over water, falling out of a helicopter. I can see one guy slipping off a rope, but two is interesting. Plus, they were fairly senior people. It was revealed (and oddly by the FBI itself) that they were associated with taking in Dzhokar Tsarnaev (which means they knew things about Boston at least), and then the FBI went and shot the Chechen associate of Tamerlyn Tsarnaev…. it’s a full-time job to monitor “events” these days, they are coming so thick and fast. Clearly, something big is in the offing. Glad Snowden blew his whistle and hope more do, at FEMA and elsewhere.
I thank the guy, he is a Hero in my book. I know alot out there will not agree, and that’s fine, but now that I know what this government thinks about us, it appears, Obama thinks that all America is the enemy, and that really piss’s me off. I like many others, have fought wars in other lands, so that we could keep America Free, and to protect our constitution from our enemies, and now, America, we have a Punk boy as our President who thinks it is the right thing to do keeping all America under survalience, and It’s made me mad as hell, I fought wars against BS like what this president has done, now he is my enemy, Obama is not America’s President, Obama is America’s enemy, as far as I am concern, he has been firing at us, and we all just stand there and take it up the a$$. You know, maybe he could have had a better response if he just came out and told America that he was going to have to go thru All America’s Phone records, and email, instead of going behind our backs, we could have at least had a say in his action, but instead he just told his boys to do it, and not to woory about our 4th Amendment. For our Congressman, or Senator to tell Obama, sure it ok, go ahead and spy on our constutients, they should ALL pay at the polls, and if we don’t make changes on that day, then we have nothing to grip about. Folks, this is NOT America, and I am going to do everything I can to stop this from happening anymore. I want this enemy of the States, out of the White House, Senate, and Congress.
Working,Did you ever consider the fact that due to guys like you fighting in their CORPORATE MADE UP WARS they are now able to get away with this.You hated and murdered your FELLOW MAN in foreign countries who had never done you, me, us, or any other american harm. You helped murder for greed nothing more than unbridled greed.I know you were just following orders,like a mindless cyborg you killed and invaded on command.Its not just the african its all the same team bush clintoon obama same team different sides of the same coin,where we are today has been planned for 100s of yrs. And one other thing DOESNT MATTER WHO VOTES FOR WHO WHAT DOES MATTER IS WHO COUNTS THE VOTES.
Steve
Steve,
Have you considered that some members of the Trenches were DRAFTED? Remember that little Viet Nam “Conflict”? They didn’t Have a Choice!
WorkingclassHero,
This has been going on for a very long time. My Dad was Drafted and served in Military Intelligence during WWII. I grew up Knowing about this big New phone issue. When computers first came out, he warned me and wanted nothing to do with them. He was born in 1907. What he taught me, I’m seeing come to light.
Angel,Dont want to get in a long drawn out with you but what the hell does “they might have been drafted” got to do with anything,”4 dead at ohio” comes to mind.HOW HARD IS IT TO SAY NO NO NO I wont go KILL innocents many stood up,The greatest fighter in the world stood up and heres a quote you might want to study angel “I ain’t draft dodging. I ain’t burning no flag. I ain’t running to Canada. I’m staying right here. You want to send me to jail? Fine, you go right ahead. I’ve been in jail for 400 years. I could be there for 4 or 5 more, but I ain’t going no 10,000 miles to help murder and kill other poor people. If I want to die, I’ll die right here, right now, fightin’ you, if I want to die. You my enemy, not no Chinese, no Vietcong, no Japanese. You my opposer when I want freedom. You my opposer when I want justice. You my opposer when I want equality. Want me to go somewhere and fight for you? You won’t even stand up for me right here in America, for my rights and my religious beliefs. You won’t even stand up for my right here at home. “”
So you can justify and make excuses til the cows come home dont matter MURDER IS WRONG,so wrong GOD almighty made it one of HIS top 10. If you or any other who “served” is OFFENDED instead of infuriated at being punked so be it.
Steve
I’m saying, Don’t throw Salt in the Wounds of those who Awakened and are here in the Trenches. Don’t you think they have beaten themselves up enough over it? Don’t you think they Know?
Angel,If they know then why oh why are you trying to defend the undefendable?I responded to a lie about FIGHTING FOR MY FREEDOMS I called bulls$#t,and you piped in with some kind of insane justification condoning MURDER.The enemy of me, you, workingclass and the rest of the folks here on the trenches IS INSIDE OUR GATES not in some third world country of UNARMED women and children. The TRUTH is not “throwing salt in wounds” nor was that my intention,but just like cops, they aint heroic just mostly bullies on steroids picking on the weak,no I dont think most are beating themselves up I think they have drunk the warpigs koolaid and see themselves as “macho” men swaggering around in villages raping and pillageing spreading death and destruction,just look at the torture and the depleted uranium in falluga and the deformed children and babies(have you seen the pictures if not I will send you enough to make you puke) then you set there and try to JUSTIFY this madness,not buying darlin not buying.This fkn killing and warmongering has to stop. MY God angel you are a female at least you should MATERNALLY know better if not mentally.
Steve
You’re not Getting It… I’m telling you to be sensitive to your brothers and sisters in the Trenches. If you want to rant along those lines, take it to the Sheeple. You’re preaching to the choir, but your words directed at the Vets, here in the Trenches, is Not helpful nor productive.
Angel I think you are the one “NOT GETTING IT” i HAVE BEEN EXTREMLY “SENSITIVE” now you try being HONEST not with me but with YOURSELF and call all things BY THEIR PROPER NAME as in murder is murder,there just aint no getting around the TRUTH.I am the son of a MURDERER(dad was officer in airforce) and the father of a child (My precious son Joshua was an air force capt.)who HELPED MURDER,so dont underestimate how hard the TRUTH IS ON MY OLD HEART AS WELL.
Steve
LOL You don’t have a Clue as to what I am, “politely”, trying to Tell you.
Bye bye.
I know exactly what you are trying to say and JUSTIFY,BUT there is just no logical rational explanation for MURDER or JUST FOLLOWING MA ORDERS and buh bye.Dont take TRUTH as somthing personal it has no feelings it just IS like water’s wet and the sky is blue it just is
Steve
Back at ya, Stevie.
By the way, I’m not JUSTIFYING Anything! I’m just telling you that they are Beating Themselves Up ENOUGH about It. They Don’t Need to be Preached to about it. Especially Here!
Are ALL of us, in the Trenches, (including the “Awakened’ Vets) on the Same Side, not Not? Get out of YourSelf and Wake Up!
It isn’t just Obama who sees us as the enemy. There is a whole attitude, partly encouraged by the mercenary nature of the way we have gone abroad seeking monsters. It’s come home to roost when you have a Massachusetts State Police officer showing his creative new program in Springfield, MA on Sixty Minutes, boasting that he considers the heroin addicts (where’s that smack coming from these days?) who run in little gangs as an “insurgency” in a “failed city” just like the place he rotates in and out of, Afghanistan. The Police Chief of Boston, Ed Davis, wants domestic drones for the 2014 Marathon. And the Newton (Heartbreak Hill town) police have already gone to Israel to train. So what are we to the class of men trained in war and Israel: we are “insurgents” and Palestinians. We are not fellow Americans, we are members of a lower class of people who are to be watched and surveilled and killed if we get out of line. Rules of engagement in L.A. with the latest demonstration? They said they no long negotiate with gunmen. Your bad luck if you are a hostage. It’s about scoring against a “bad guy” and never mind a little collateral damage. They think the Constitution is “quaint” or obsolete, saying and acting as though it is. The British have a Parliament because they took a king to task for ignoring theirs. That king was Charles I. We hid the regicides in New England, and some of them stayed on. Those of us descended from them, actually or in spirit, do not and must not forget.
A True Human, its time for the Sheeple to wake up, and take our freedom back; no one on this Earth will be safe till this evil elite scum is wiped out, just watch the movie 1984, to get an idea, where we are headed, in fact we are very nearly there.
If we don’t stand up and do something soon, we are doomed.
This should end that silly person’s presidency! Obama!
The problem is they would just instill someone else.
also couldn’t Edward put all his family, friends, partner under protective custody.
We know if something happens it’s either Mossad or the CIA that has done it, that makes the US and Israel guilty.
I knew about all this NSA and spying a year ago before this leak I am quite sure most people that research everything going on also knew about it.
LOL …”Protective Custody”… (or Witness Protection)?! Who do you think Supplies those “services.” 😉
I agree with those who said, ‘We already knew about this surveillance.”
What this leak represents more than anything substantive in a leak sense, is a big, substantive, “f you,” to United States police state tyranny.
I think Edward Snowden speaks for us all.
You nailed it. Those of us with eyes to see have known this has been going on for as long as the technology has existed, which is at least as long as land line phones have been around. Later, with computers, came Echelon. This is nothing new at all, but has grown into a monolithic tyrannical monster with a voracious appetite for any and all information. Only now will the sheeple that call people like myself paranoid finally get a clue.
🙂
Better to be an American hero that a grunt. This gov does not trust the
citizens – its not about terrorism. They keep pushing and practicing for
us. They are just a bunch of crooks. Like Holder should be and long ago
should have been rotting in a real dangerous prison. Justice is not blind.
“Q: Why Hong Kong?
A: “I think it is really tragic that an American has to move to a place that has a reputation for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People’s Republic of China. It has a strong tradition of free speech.””
I’m sorry, but I spent a lot of time working and travelling in Hong Kong and I can honestly say that Hong Kong has A LOT more freedom than the U.S. these days. More than just a reputation for free speech. They don’t have drones or spycams everywhere. They actually have some sort of education system and the parents respect teachers. They don’t have cops pulling you over or frisking you for no reason. They don’t have stupid laws like “Interfering with a public servant” and they don’t taser people for no reason. Hell, you can even drink a beer out on the street at any time and no one gives a shit. So I don’t know what Snowden is smoking. This guy is a real idiot.
I agree with JD. Snowden is not very intelligent if he is some high government whistleblower.
THIS IS YOUR NEW OFFICE AND HOME!!!
Budget cost 2 Billion and still counting from your Taxes?
Welcome to Utah. Bet you never considered moving here, but here’s the catch, you don’t have to. The NSA has set it up so that your Whole Life will be right here and the computerized You will be kept in a massive cold storage building to protect all you communications and in the future with an as yet undisclosed program, your thoughts.
All of your emails, telephone, texts, scanned mail, banking and medical records are already here or will be from their temporary storage facilities. Cell phone towers near you will check your verbal discussions, when you get angry with the wife she or the neighbors won’t have to call the police, it
will be automatically relayed by the tower or a drone. If enough people protest about the drones – What!, how about the Stealth Drones and Robots to Disarm and Subdue you. Imagine the robots voice will most
likely be your own that they will have down or up loaded. You will be telling yourself to remain calm!
Now that makes sense of the statement ‘The only thing to fear is Fear Itself’. “Honey why are you looking like that, what are you doing with your gun”. “It’s no use Betty we might as well be dead with what I have just read, we’re trapped by own ignorance” “No Jack we must resist, Jack, Oh my god”.
Sound Crazy – Disturbed. Unless this is Blocked It’s all over folks; they alerted us to all of this in Hollywood movies so we would mentally accept it and as we type this and you read it – It’s in Utah or soon on its way.
If you do not start a Major Response to all of this then you might as well redesign your house interior to match a government sterile office and think and type away with nice thoughts. Bad thoughts and it will be window breaking time at 4:00 AM with black outfits tugging you out of bed or you could be like our Jack and Betty. Maybe you’re the perfect citizen and they decide to make an example of you. They send you a Blog and lead you into Disneyworld and well let’s not dwell on your fate in their Funnyland!
And now the big question WHY? The old adage knowledge is power was a ruse. Control of the Access to the knowledge is Power – Think book burning but saving copies for Special People.
Yes Change Has Come and when the next Whistleblower states that the computer is now programmed to communicate directly with you, don’t be surprised. It’s talking to Whitehouse resident – for sure. It was on maintenance when he didn’t get the video feed last week. It’s also playing with him! A new movie “IT LIVES”…
If you want to tear some of this down you have to expose all that you see that is Wrong – See next post
We are Legion
REALLY WANT TO START SOMETHING – PASS THIS AS EMAIL TO THEIR ADDRESS..
SYRIAN EMERGENCY TASK FORCE
cchesley@syriantaskforce.org
An Open Letter to Elizabeth O’Bagy
Dear, Dear Elizabeth:
We certainly see your efforts on behalf of the so called revolution in Syria and especially your photo with Mr. McCain and those other Arab looking men; all of you appearing well pleased with yourselves. And then just a few days later the tide is turned and those terrible Syrian’s aided by their Lebanese neighbors started cleaning out the ‘Rat Nests’ as they aptly named them.
All that effort from you and your groups, and as well all that Money (Taxpayers) for naught. Even Mr. McCain is worried that your Friends are going to be slaughtered. What exactly did you people promise those men in those meetings and who in god’s name authorized you as a private American Citizen to Treaty on behalf of America. You have been in many top universities; however you appear to have been
Sleeping during the courses on US Code covering Treason and Trading with the Enemy.
Elizabeth you are in fine company as Mr. McCain has a lot of experience with enemies of America, some gained while he broadcasted from North Viet Nam radio during his visit there as a so-called POW. We used to call him Cain as in the bible. We want to ask you a few questions from a neutral standpoint. Has any Syrian ever accosted you on the street, broken into your house or even threatened to do so or brought any personal or economic harm to you or any immediate member of your family, or has any Iranian done any of these things. If the answer is yes then we can sort of understand you undying quest to route out Syrian people using Non Syrian people, sort an Irish mindset, Right. Oh yes, of course you didn’t know that those men are all wanted for various offenses by many countries to include our good old USA. In fact, they are proven Habitual Kidnappers, Rapists, etc. (What if they had decided to have their wicked way with you and or Mr. McCain); any American aiding and abetting them and their cohorts would be equally guilty under the Law. Nowadays, in America, ignorance is no longer a defense!
There is the distinct possibility of a Citizens Grand Jury calling upon you to answer some of these points; we do not know what your defense could possibly be as the joyful Photos speak reams. Of course if they are all slaughtered (eliminated) as Mr. McCain fears, then all would perhaps be forgotten; something to pray for or perhaps you still believe that the public is not aware of this too costly folly.
We are Legion
Hey ALL I think all you folks are looking at this unique opportunity from the wrong angle. Just like their recorded words ( with faces ,names and dates),Video/audio explaining and justify the treason they have endorsed will be used to CHARGE, TRY AND CONVICT them we can now claim they knew what they were/are doing is wrong ,treasonous ,unconstitutional etc. since they have heard us pi%$in and moaning for years about their actions. SO I SAY STAND UP TALK LOUD AND CLEAR ,ASK THEM IF THEY HEARD THAT CLEARLY ENOUGH– WHETHER ONLINE ON THE PHONE IN PUBLIC TWITTING WHISTLEING OR SINGING A SONG LET THE MANGY SUMBITCHES KNOW YOU HAVE NO FEAR OF THEM AND THEIR PAPER THREATS AND CLOWNS IN STATE COSTUMES. Let them hear the price to be paid for traitors and thieves and last but not least PRAY and be at peace FEAR is the mind killer,we are no longer children and boo in the night bedtime stories should be laughed at and ridiculed for the lame attempts at control that they are.
Steve