MassPrivateINorth Carolina – Can a firefighter pull over a motorist suspected of driving under the influence of alcohol? Perhaps not, a sharply divided North Carolina Court of Appeals ruled last Tuesday. Gordon Shatley, a Chapel Hill Fire Department lieutenant, was responding to a fire alarm when he stopped his fire engine at the intersection of Estes Drive and Fordham Boulevard at 10:30pm on May 27, 2011. To his left he saw a light-colored Mercedes stopped with a window partially rolled down in pouring rain with only parking lights and the interior dome light on.
He found it odd.
The light turned green and Shatley drove on to where he was dispatched, only to find another fire engine beat him to the scene. He turned back, and on his way to the station he saw the odd Mercedes driving 30 MPH in a 45 MPH zone. Shatley called the police and followed the vehicle which began weaving toward oncoming traffic. Shatley had the red flashing lights of the fire truck activated and the siren blasted twice. The Mercedes pulled over.
Shatley spoke to the Mercedes driver, Dorothy Hoogland Verkerk, saying he “just wanted to make sure she was okay.” He asked her whether she would park and have someone else pick her up, but she drove off. Ten minutes later, Chapel Hill Police arrived and after speaking with Shatley, they caught up to Verkerk and pulled her over and charged her with drunk driving.
At trial, Orange County Superior Court Judge Elaine Bushfan denied Verkerk’s motion to suppress the evidence that arose from the firefighter’s traffic stop, arguing the stop had nothing to do with the Fourth Amendment because it was the equivalent of a lawful citizen’s arrest. Verkerk was sentenced to thirty days in prison, 18 months of probation, 72 hours community service and a $1000 fine plus costs. On appeal, the judges found the stop did implicate the Fourth Amendment.
“As a result of the fact that defendant stopped her Mercedes following activation of the flashing lights and siren with which the fire engine that Lieutenant Shatley commanded was equipped, we have no hesitation in concluding that, assuming that the other exclusionary rule prerequisites exist, the stopping of the defendant’s car constituted a ‘seizure’ for Fourth Amendment purposes and that the trial court erred by reaching a contrary conclusion,” Judge Sam Ervin IV wrote for the Court of Appeals majority.
The panel majority, however, was not ready to let Verkerk go free based on the scanty record at hand and the lack of clear precedent for the case. It asked the lower court to determine whether Shatley was operating as a government agent or a private citizen.
“If, after hearing any additional evidence that it deems necessary and making the necessary finding, the trial court concludes that Lieutenant Shatley acted as a private citizen rather than as a governmental agent at the time that defendant’s vehicle was stopped, then the trial court should deny defendant’s suppression motion and reinstate the trial court’s judgment,” Judge Ervin wrote.
On the other hand, the appellate panel ordered the lower court to give Verkerk a new trial if the suppression motion is upheld.
http://thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2013/nc-firemandui.pdf
California man says firefighter pulled him over:
Sacramento, CA – There was no place for wrongdoing at 2013′s version of “Rafting Gone Wild”. More than 100 sets of eyes – police, sheriff’s deputies, park rangers – were on the lookout for anything that looked illegally out of place in Rancho Cordova.
Patrick Brosnan wasn’t even trying to raft, he was just driving near the Sunrise access to the American River when he got stopped.
“He turned on his lights as soon as we came out of that street right there,” said Brosnan, pointing to what he said was the site of a very confusing encounter.
He was stunned to find out the person who pulled him over in the middle of all the rafting traffic belonged to a Sacramento Metro firefighter.
“My first question to him was ‘you’re a firefighter, do you even have the authority to pull me over?’”
And he claims he could never get a clear answer.
“He says I drifted into his lane. I still think I was still in my lane and he was just trying to get around the car that was in front of him,” Brosnan said.
Three Sacramento County Sheriff’s deputies were called in by the firefighter, who left the traffic stop soon after they arrived.
Making a statement for the department Thursday, Metro Fire Captain Chris Quinn said Brosnan was driving “extremely dangerously.”
The deputies gave Brosnan a field sobriety test, but he did not have alcohol in his system.
According to Brosnan, “They (deputies) said, ‘We didn’t see you do anything. We can’t charge you based on what he said, even though he’s a fireman’”.
Captain Quinn said the fire department employee ”has the right to question the driver and can write citations for moving violations.”
http://fox40.com/2013/07/18/man-says-firefighter-pulled-him-over/#ixzz2ZVl6lbWN
http://statter911.com/2013/07/19/sacramento-metro-fire-department-defends-legality-of-firefighter-who-did-traffic-stop-on-citizen-sheriff-disagrees/
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http://massprivatei.blogspot.com/2013/09/firefighters-want-to-be-allowed-to.html
The fdny is an agency that does things in a manner which one might consider being a rat. Within the borders of nyc the fdny does inspections on homes that contain multiple units or apartments which contain oil burners for heating the building and the oil storage tanks.
They have been instructed to give information that may be “suspicious” to police for further investigation. They will also give out citations for violations of fire code or blocked egress among others related to signage. Now I am all for fire safety but when did new york’s bravest become new yorks new oppressors by turning in fellow Americans? When you hear a fire truck it is supposed to be coming to the rescue not a sign of attack for goodness sake it even says Fing FIRE RESCUE on the dam truck. This if you see something say something has gotten way out of hand.
They seriously better watch themselves as some people already have shot at both emt’s and fd personnel arriving on the scene in the past.
Heck during the issues relating to storm sandy down in coney island Brooklyn (gov subsidized housing of course) they were throwing bottles and other object down on them. It seems they all want to be fire marshals who carry firearms and have the ability to make arrests making the new larger occupying force the nyfpd. Or they are just tired of not being able to fire back. Its sick just plain sick.
Oh and if they can make a “citizens arrest” as in the above article when is it going to be ok for We The People to do so? Eventually any person who has a government job will be allowed to “detain” or arrest you because they are from the government and are here to help.
Heck yea Mark. Nearly every town of say 10,000 or more population will have a cop bar and there are a lot of cops, ambulance workers, and firefighters, and yea the judges that spend a good long time in their cop bars getting bar stool drunk and after 3 maybe 4+ hours they get up walk to their car and drive somewhere else, and yea many of them go out back for a toke or two off of that joint or crack pipe. It is a reality in almost every if not all towns. I think that we all know about how far that it would fly if we all busted all of those respectable public safety type workers like the cops and firefighters.
I saw this coming 10 years ago. I was with a VFD & saw how the Feds were wrapping their insidious evil grip around common volunteer folk to turn them into goons. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Now those same folk are trying to mend their ways by getting out; it’s not working. These first responder departments are hooked on “freebies” given out by vendors & Federal Grant money.
Right now, in a neighboring county my area, there is a arson fire that burned a fellow prepper’s goods & supplies up. It appears to have been set by a Fire Fighter because of the owner opting out of a Fire District Taxation & cutting himself off from the local water district. At this point, the LEO has stalled the investigation & the State Fire Marshal has not been notified. The owner received spotted 3rd degree burns on his back from dripping molten aluminum.
If there is even a suspicion that there is questionable acttivity going on, ANY First Responder will make a call in & LEO will respond. Something Preppers & Militiamen need to be keenly aware of.
This is being now taught in OPSEC classes in my area.
Firemen pulling people over? Seriously? That’s the latest police state shit going on now? OMG! These elitist control bastards will not stop until they are dead. So now any car with a siren has the right to pull you over?
How about an EMS truck? “Oh, we aren’t transporting anyone to the hospital. But since we are bored, we thought we’d pull people over to make sure they are OK and not drunk.”
I mean really? GO AWAY! Scram, kid. You’re botherin’ me.
Several years ago Strap-on Janet sent a memo out to ALL First responders (Nation-wide) to report any suspicious activity found on private property. Her reasoning was that First Responders had unfettered (Unconstitutional) access to private property that LEO did not. Looking at the SOP of my former Department, she is correct. There are no current modifications to that policy.
They bought some of that ammunition for NOAA. So now if we point out a forecast that was incorrect, will we be arrested by a weatherman at gunpoint?? Sounds crazy, but that’s the crazy world we live in. It seems it’s the agencies against “we the people”.
Happy to see you’re waking up. Taking the red pill is disconcerting, but real.
Morpheus: “You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Remember — all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.”
I am bewildered by the fire truck being stopped at a red light. Then getting to the call late, then going back to investigate the suspicious car. The story does not add up. Why was it on a call but stopping at a red light and waiting for it to turn green? Are fire coats bullet proof? I dont see them wearing guns as walking into a fire strapped could cause AD. very odd.
Soon they will be issued m-15’s and 4000 rounds of hollow points. “just to protect you Ma’am”. They will apply for the new IED protected fire trucks, and mace containers. Uhh, that reminds me of Fahrenheit 451. Good book.
ied protected fire trucks…lol with 50cal mounted on top.
“Dillon Aero fire trucks”
-for putting out fires in a combat zone near you!
How many fire fighters will be found with mouths full of lead before they realize this was a bad idea. If you are being persued by a driver who is not an officer of the law and you feel your life is in danger, shoot them it’s that simple.